Mother and the Vatican

Diary of an attempt to save Christianity

For the benefit of readers unfamiliar with the Mother, links to three former posts are provided at the end of this post.

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June 29, 1963

The Mother speaks of the new Pope, Paul VI, who was elected a few days earlier:

Sri Aurobindo seems to have taken interest in the Pope’s successor. Two nights ago, I was with him — I spent a half hour with him (a half hour of OUR time, which is very long), he had just returned from a “tour.” From his comments on this or that person, or on this or that, I knew he was returning from Italy, where he had gone for the nomination of the new Pope. And he said something like: “It’s the best that could be done under the present circumstances.” That is, he appeared satisfied overall.

Paul VI in 1969 (21 June 1963 – 6 August 1978)

I told you, didn’t I, that I saw the death of the Pope [John XXIII] without even knowing he was ill? One night, I suddenly saw in the mental atmosphere of the EARTH quite an awesome movement, that is to say, quite global: there were great mental waves, great waves of anxiety, as though all human thought were very upset; but it wasn’t the anxiety of the believers, it was a very global movement — the earth’s mental atmosphere was stirring with great movements of upheaval and anxiety (Mother draws waves in the air). I thought, “What’s happening? What’s happening that can so upset men?” (as would happen, for instance, with a world war or events of that kind), “What’s happening that can draw the attention of the whole earth’s atmosphere, its mental atmosphere?” And the next day, I was told that just at that time, the Pope had died.

Afterwards, I learned about his “Ecumenical Council” and all his reforms, his attempt, in short, to bring everyone together as much as he could (all the Christians, at least), and the fact that he had become a friend of the Russians, etc. So then, I concentrated, because according to natural logic (the logic of Nature’s actions), the next Pope should be a horrible reactionary — in a word, it didn’t bode well. I concentrated and tried to make things work out for the best. And I see that Sri Aurobindo did find the thing important, since he concentrated over there.

It seems his successor is a man with more progressive ideas than his predecessor. I saw his photo (but it’s a newspaper photo, which generally are very bad: you can’t have any contact, you only see this much [gesture on the surface]). The thing that struck me most is a sort of insincerity. A benevolent and ecclesiastical insincerity — if you know what I mean? …

It seems Kennedy is Catholic…. That matters. They say he was the first person the Pope saw after his inauguration.

Satprem: I don’t know, when I saw the photo of the new Pope, I got a strong impression of a very shrewd man, a politician.

(Mother nods approvingly)

Sri Aurobindo used something like these words: It is all that can be done in the present circumstances. Which means it seemed to be the man of his choice, because he certainly went to the conclave and saw the situation — he influenced the vote…. At any rate, Sri Aurobindo is interested in world events, which means he considers the Pope’s election has a certain importance.

At bottom, Catholicism is balanced by communism; and that the two came together was a masterstroke. The friendship with Russia is very clever. They are today’s two platforms of influence in the earth’s atmosphere.

July 3, 1963

I have another photo of the Pope (Mother shows “Time” magazine). It seems it’s the photo he chose himself for the press, to announce his election….

(Mother hands the photo to Satprem) So, what do you have to say?

You should be the one to say!

I have to say that I know this man. I have met him several times. I don’t know whether he is conscious, I mean I don’t think he remembers when he returns to his body…. The mouth is as bad as in the other photo, but bad in another way: he looks almost malicious. But the man has power — real power; not a Pope’s power — inside him. He’s a man who, were he not the Pope, would have no scruples. But (laughing) he happens to be obliged at least to appear good!

I get a sense of hardness.

Very hard. Just the opposite of the other one [John XXIII]. But he has publicly pledged to continue what the other one had begun. Only, the other one had no power whatsoever: he was simply a good man on earth. This one isn’t a “good man”! He’s an effective power in the terrestrial organizations. And now he has a position.

But is his power of organization a power for the “good,” if I may say so, or what?

It’s a power of domination. But now he is the Pope, so his domination will have to be at the service of his position. But maybe.... The very fact that I met him while seeing to certain terrestrial arrangements shows that, probably unconsciously (I told you right away: I don’t think he is conscious in his body), he is nevertheless under the influence, if not the control, of the higher forces….

That religion is perhaps the one I have fought the most, for a very simple reason: its power, its means of action (the power it uses as a means of action) is fear. And of all things, fear is the most degrading.

I saw two examples of this, one physically and the other intellectually (I am referring to things I was in contact with materially). Intellectually, it was a studio friend; for years we had done painting together, she was a very gentle girl, older than I, very serious, and a very good painter. During my last years in Paris, I saw her often and I spoke to her, first of occult matters and the “Cosmic philosophy,” then of what I knew of Sri Aurobindo (I had a “group” there and I used to explain certain things), and she would listen with great understanding — she understood, she approved. Now, one day, I went to her house and she told me she was in a great torment. When she was awake, she had no doubts, she understood well, she felt the limitations and obscurities of religion (she came from a family with several archbishops and a cardinal — well, one of those “old French families”). “But at night,” she told me, “I suddenly wake up with an anguish and something — from my subconscient, obviously — tells me, ‘But after all this, what if you go to hell?’” And she repeated, “When I am awake it doesn’t have any force, but at night, when it comes up from the subconscient, it chokes me.”

Sidebar: On August 26, 1967, the Mother added: “All those who were baptized and went for a time to confession are part of a whole, an inner, psychological entity, and it’s VERY difficult to break free from it; they are bound to a whole — there is ... there is an invisible Church, and all those people are in its grip. To break free from it, one must be a vital hero. A true hero, you understand. If you don’t go to mass and have never been to confession, with a little vital energy you can get out of it, but those who have gone to confession — especially confession — and when you take communion…. When she was awake, she understood wonderfully; and she herself was furious, but she didn’t have the power to remove the hold from her subconscient.”

Then I looked, and I saw a kind of huge octopus over the earth: that formation of the Church — of hell — with which they hold people in their grip. The fear of hell. Even when all your reason, all your intelligence, all your feeling is against it, there is, at night, that octopus of the fear of hell which comes and grips you. That brought home to me the magnitude of the problem.

Fear is not a negative thing: it’s a very positive thing, it’s a special form of power that has always been used by the Asuric forces — it’s their greatest strength. Whenever people are defeated, it’s ALWAYS through fear, always.

September 7, 1963

I told you I spoke with the Pope for quite a long time the day of his election, and the conversation was abruptly interrupted by a reaction he had. (It was really a mental conversation we were having: I spoke, he replied, I heard his reply — I don’t know whether he was conscious of something ... probably not, but anyway; it wasn’t at all a formation of my own mind because I received quite unexpected replies.) But the conversation was interrupted abruptly by a reaction he had when I told him that God is everywhere and in all things; that everything is He; and then a great Force came down into me and I added, “Even when you descend into Hell, He is there too.”

Then everything stopped dead. Since then I’ve learned that it’s part of their teaching: that what is terrible in Hell isn’t so much the suffering, but that there is no God there; that it’s the only part of the creation in which there is no God — there is no God in Hell. And I asserted that He is there too.

December 2, 1964

You know that the Pope is here, in Bombay, for the “Eucharistic Congress”. There is in the Illustrated Weekly … a magnificent portrait of the Pope with a message he wrote specially for the Weekly’s readers, in which he took great care not to use Christian words. Among other things he wishes them a celestial grace. Then I saw (he tried to be as impersonal as possible), I saw that in spite of everything, the Christians’ greatest difficulty is that their happiness and fulfillment are in heaven. They believe in a divine realization, but the divine realization isn’t terrestrial, it’s somewhere else, in a celestial world, that is, immaterial. And that is their great obstacle.

March 20, 1968

Everything that follows concerns a dignitary of the Roman Curia, referred throughout by the initials P.L., who is going to be appointed bishop in an unnamed country. When the Pope came to Bombay, he was with him on the plane.

Satprem: This whole Christianity he rejects, he no longer wants it. He wants to leave his Church, his episcopate, everything, and remain here. He has “found” something here, and he wants to leave everything. But it’s a problem, because the slightest thing may cause scandals in Italy. The Communists are always ready to seize on the least opportunity: a priest who gives up the frock.... Not only a priest, but an apprentice bishop of the Roman Curia. So he would like it to take place without scandals.

I saw the man, and I found him very good.

He has experiences with Sri Aurobindo, he sees Sri Aurobindo. But there too, there’s a problem. He needs your force: he’s a man without much force vitally and physically. When he goes out of his body.... The other day, he saw Sri Aurobindo, and at the same time his body was being devoured by wild beasts. He is attacked; he needs to be protected. So if he goes back to Rome, those people won’t let him go without a battle.... He’d like to ask you how he should proceed? He told me he is the right-hand man of Cardinal Tisserant: “Should I use my influence with Cardinal Tisserant to be given a sort of mission outside Rome, in Africa or in India, gradually distancing myself from Rome, keeping out of the limelight, and then disappearing? Or should I directly speak to the Pope and tell him clearly all that’s going on?”

I prefer the solution of speaking to the Pope. Is he the one who fainted here during a meditation?

Yes, vitally and physically he is weak.

Vitally, the Pope is very strong. That’s troublesome. But it’s the only way. That danger is there, but he’ll have to go through it.

April 3, 1968

I saw P.L. yesterday. I very strongly had the sense of the beginning, the commencement of something like an action or a series of events that would have great importance for the development of the earth. Very strongly: it lasted for hours, that impression. And for me it’s quite unaccustomed, because generally, outward things … (Mother shakes her head) … all events are so relative that they don’t leave any impression. It’s like a door opening onto something that will have a rather considerable importance in the development of the earth. I didn’t feel he himself was conscious. It somewhat exceeded human consciousnesses. But I clearly saw, very clearly saw the Pope.

Has he decided to go to Rome?

Yes, and as soon as he gets there, he’ll ask for an audience.

It’s something far exceeding human individualities, and it was the beginning of something very important in the history of the earth’s evolution. And there was no perception of anything personal: individualities are just like pawns that are used for starting something. The movement, the origin of the movement is infinitely higher and vaster than any physical personality.

Does it have something to do with the Pope?

Yes. With Christendom.

April 27, 1968

Satprem reads a letter from P.L., who writes that he fell ill as soon as he came back to the Vatican, that he could not see the Pope, is in despair, incapable, etc.

He doesn’t have the strength. That’s what I feared. The influence is too strong (gesture to show P.L. caught in a grip).

Satprem then reads a letter of Monsignor R. [a friend of P.L.] to J. [P.L.’s (lady) friend, a member of the Ashram]. He is a billionaire, and it’s P.L. who manages his billions. In this letter Msgr. R. asks J. to give P.L. urgent help by receiving him in her Pondicherry home and looking after him, as the case is very serious and P.L. is going through a “psychological crisis” and must break out of his milieu, etc.

He’d better come. And what did J. say?

Satprem: Oh, that’s another problem. J. told me, “Impossible.” She has a reaction against P.L., because P.L. is desperately clinging to her.

Oh dear!

He’s clinging to her as if for dear life. When he is here, he won’t leave her, he wants to stay with her and clings to her as much as he can. So J. says, “I don’t want any more of that.” … He will find himself back in the same situation: he will come back here, will be very happy and contented, things will be fine, and then....

And then he just has to stay here!

He just has to stay here?

And things there [at the Vatican] will unravel quite naturally. You see, not for one day have I been without connection with him…. I have a connection only when people call, so it means he has really been calling. And continuously, with a sense of tension. The vital forces there are EXTREMELY powerful.

But he told me that as soon as he goes out of his body, his body is devoured by wild beasts.

Ah! ... Did that happen even here?

Yes.

That’s troublesome.

He told me another story. He had another “dream” here, in Pondicherry, which very much upset him. One night he saw himself turned into a sort of owl which wanted to kill you! That bird had a dagger and was about to go and kill you. Then he woke up with a start, horrified by what he was going to do. It was P.L. turned into an owl, rushing towards you with a dagger to kill you.... He was horrified, the poor man.

That means he is very much under their influence.

When he saw Sri Aurobindo at the Samadhi [his tomb], Sri Aurobindo told him, “Come, come and sit here, near me, stay here.” So he stayed there quite happily, then all of a sudden he passed out....

There’s a great conflict within…. Yes, the battle is being waged within….

I wouldn’t want them to have a relationship. That would be very undesirable — it shouldn’t take place here, you understand; it would right away take him out of the protection. If what makes him come back here is a desire of this order, it will take him out of the protection.

May 2, 1968

Satprem reads Mother a telegram in which P.L. announces a mysterious “new fact” and implores to be allowed to stay with his friend J. for “grave reasons”.

It’s true that their occult power is very great and one has to be very strong to resist it. And he got scared stiff. That’s what made him sick. My own feeling is that the other fellow, this Monsignor R., wanted to get rid of him.... Seriously, I think he smelled something fishy and said, “He’d better leave.”

But you know, he’s really a victim: when he was seven, his mother sent him to a friars’ convert in Spain ... till the age of eighteen!

Poor man!

In Spain! You know, that inexorable Christianity ... From seven to eighteen — it’s dreadful!

He’s a very nice man, but vitally not strong enough. But if he lived in a convent for so many years, then I understand....

May 4, 1968

The impression I got — very strong, it lasted for at least two days — was of Catholicism defending itself. And as in the mental region they couldn’t touch P.L., they reached him from below and ruined his health — they know how to do all that, they are very skilled occultists….

They are so attached to their power that they are capable of reverting to their old ways — excommunication, inquisition, and the rest — to prevent things from moving…. These people have a considerable occult knowledge and a total lack of scruples. I am absolutely convinced that they are the ones who made P.L. sick. He may not be aware of it (he probably isn’t), but I am convinced of it.

There has been a very strong attack here — very strong and directly on me. I saw it, you understand — I saw it. I can’t say I felt it, but I saw it.

Coming from them?

Coming from them.

And not only was it directly on me, but it touched ... (gesture in the Ashram’s atmosphere), it touched.

May 8, 1968

I very much feel that they did magic, so he wouldn’t be able to speak to the Pope.

Satprem: For the moment, he’s very exhausted.

Yes, they’ve drained him.

It started with a mental attack — every possible doubt: Sri Aurobindo is “like Saint Augustine,” Mother is “like Virgin Mary,” it’s “the same thing.” A mental attack, anyway. After that, he became unable to eat: every time he ate, he would vomit. Then he had fits of hysteria: convulsions, foaming at the mouth, and a kind of half madness.

Bah, bah!

Here’s what happened: he wrote to the Pope asking him for an audience, but that letter never reached the Pope.

Oh!

It fell into the hands of the “Chief of Correspondence,” who probably sent it to the “Indian department” of the Vatican to find out what that Ashram was.... And he was never allowed to see the Pope. Eight days later, those attacks started coming. And after another eight days, they told him, “Oh, you’re too ill, you can’t meet the Pope. You’re ‘out of it.’”

Now they’re on their guard over there.

But with what he told me, I caught the Vatican’s atmosphere.... It’s something frightful, a mafia with bands hating each other, lying in wait for the Pope’s disappearance, not daring to say anything: those who are for the Pope dare not say anything because they think, “When the Pope dies, Ill need his enemies to be elected in his place.” They all keep thinking about his succession. So no one wants to be the other’s enemy and each watches the other. It’s a frightful atmosphere.

Since he gave that letter for the Pope, I’ve been seeing constant attacks here [at the Ashram], constant. These people are dangerous.

May 15, 1968

The lower part of Mother’s face is very much swollen, apparently because of an “infection.” She has been unable to eat anything.

You see, it’s the Vatican. I fought and fought, but ... there are too many lies around me. That’s it, too many people tell lies all around. I was supposed to see P.L. tomorrow; I think it’s better to wait for a few days.

Did it come through his atmosphere?

Not particularly — directly. Naturally, it’s because of that business, and especially because of what we wanted him to do at the Vatican. It’s the response to that. I felt it immediately and was able to resist for a very long time, but then... the atmosphere here isn’t pure enough…. When the disorder is invisible, I am free not to say anything and people won’t know, but here (laughing) it has taken such a visible form that I couldn’t ignore it!

May 22, 1968

I saw P.L. yesterday. He is still terribly nervous. He said he was much better, but the least thing makes his face tense up. So he must stay on to let all that be undone, cleared out, destroyed. It’s interesting, interesting things are taking place.

Satprem: P.L. had an interesting dream. He noted it down so I could tell you about it.... It’s a dream he had three times in a row at a few days’ interval. Exactly the same dream, the same unfolding....

Someone sent it to him. Let’s see.

[Satprem reads:] “It is feast day in the Vatican. St. Peter’s Square is jammed with people. The Pope’s procession begins; I have witnessed it many times, very near the Pope, next to the cardinals. But instead of the sedia gestatoria [the chair in which the Pope is carried], there is a huge elephant carrying someone. Who is this someone? Sweet Mother? No, it’s Pavitra. Not at all, it’s Satprem! No, it’s the School’s director.... The more I try to fix my attention on him, the more his face changes, as in a kaleidoscope. In reality, I have difficulty fixing my attention, because I strain under the weight of the elephant, which is now entering St. Peter’s Basilica. In fact, I am in a very uncomfortable posture, for I am not the elephant: I am in his legs, in his nails, and his weight is very, very great, which is why I can’t see who is sitting on him. Meanwhile, the elephant has reached Bernini’s Baldaquin, inside St. Peter’s Basilica, and finally comes up to the Pope’s throne, in which he sits down....

(Mother laughs)

“On his head sits the same person as before: Sweet Mother? Pavitra? Satprem? A teacher? I do not know. I cannot make out the person’s body, only his changing face.... All of a sudden, the multitude, the huge crowd there receives a tremendous vibration: everything is shaken, and from this change of mentality, there springs a very powerful cry, applause towards this Force that has just penetrated their souls — the whole crowd is transformed.... Once the ceremony is over, the elephant comes out of the Basilica. I stand near the door and contemplate the endless crowd stretching far, far away. I am curious to know how many people are there, and at the end, a number appears on the horizon: 1,600,000,000.”

This man is prodigiously receptive! … What number?

One billion six hundred million. It seems, according to him, to represent more or less all of Christendom: not just the Catholics, but the Christians.

That’s what I had been told. I had been told it was the first movement — the first indication, the first movement of Christendom’s conversion to the Truth. It was clearly indicated that it had been DECREED. That’s what I had seen. I had never seen a thing like that! I told you, when I was in the room [where Mother receives visitors] and P.L. came in, there came something so ... serious (what’s the right word?), something that had the importance and stability of great terrestrial movements, of great ages — the beginning of a great age. I had never felt that. Then I looked and saw it was decreed from on high: the beginning of Christendom’s conversion to the Truth — Christendom as a whole.

They have felt something there [at the Vatican]: I told you there was such a violent attack. It’s mostly P.L. who has been the victim, and me in part: it touched this body.

Should I tell him nothing about his dream, or can I...?

Oh, you can tell him that I said he is remarkably sensitive and receptive; that there is a VERY DEEP truth behind this dream, despite its somewhat childish outward form. There’s a very deep truth.

Only, he isn’t a man who needs to be urged on; he’s a man who needs to be held back, because the adhar as the Indians would say, that is, his material envelope, isn’t strong enough for the power animating it. This results in illnesses. But he is very conscious — very conscious, even far more conscious than the dream suggests.

The time has come for the Turning Point when all this old formidable Christian formation which has spread over the earth like this (octopus-like gesture) — and which naturally fulfilled its function, did what it had to do, came just when it was needed and so on and so forth, we know all that — the time has come when it must change in order to become the instrument of tomorrow’s truth.

And this Pope has done his work well, as well as he could.

For perhaps a long time yet, or at any rate for some time, P.L. must be the intermediary, but a somewhat conscious one — not active. He acts as an intermediary, as a link (gesture as of a bridge between Mother and the Vatican), but he shouldn’t.... He doesn’t have the capacity to resist those people’s tremendous power. He should remain very still — very still, very peaceful — he should let himself live happily, then he will fulfill his function.

June 22, 1968

P.L. has left for Rome.

I have a very strong suspicion about the famous “friend” [Msgr. R.], because he was the one who told P.L. to come here (you remember how he insisted P.L. should come), and now he’s saying P.L. came here to live with a woman. And he’s the one who arranged everything so P.L. would stay with J.! I have a very strong suspicion. Haven’t they laid a terrible trap for him? ...

He’s expecting a sort of interrogation.

Yes. You remember, it was this Monsignor who sent a telegram to J. asking her to take P.L. in.... To me, these people will stop at nothing.

All the more so since it must now be known that he tried to see the Pope and speak to him about the Ashram.

Yes, of course!

Before he left, he told me he’d had a dream. He was in a vital world (he was being chased, I think); he suddenly climbed a tree, which turned into a cross, and he was crucified on it.... That place was on the edge of a sea that seemed leaden. So he climbed that tree, which turned into a cross, and was as if crucified on the tree; and (you know that at the top of the cross, there is the inscription INRI) instead of that, there was your symbol: Mother’s symbol. After that, the cross got as if caught or engulfed by that leaden sea, with only Mother’s symbol emerging, remaining on the surface; the cross was engulfed, and little by little the leaden water changed colors and grew transparent. But he, P.L., was engulfed along with the cross.

I saw him before he left; there was around him an atmosphere I didn’t like. Yes, like a man who’s going to sacrifice himself…. P.L. could be very, very useful if he wanted to — very useful. But there’s a little something that resists, I don’t know what — maybe like a slight lack of courage somewhere, I don’t know what.... When he is in front of difficulty, he is instantly tormented. That’s what bothers me. Because I have put on him enough force for him to pull through in any event, but if inwardly he starts vibrating, it can’t work anymore.

July 6, 1968

Satprem: I have news of P.L…. First there’s a note from J. who’s received a letter from P.L.; she writes this to me: “P.L. is fine. Msgr. R. told him he had ‘discovered another world through your book’ [“Sri Aurobindo or the Adventure of Consciousness”]. He made P.L. see the importance of staying in this milieu for some more time. P.L. feels totally guided by Mother; as soon as his work is over, he isolates himself to study and meditate on ‘The Life Divine’.” ...

Finally, a letter from P.L. telling the story: “On my return, the Vatican adopted a dual policy: threats on one hand, and on the other, promotions and offers of fine situations. I had been absent from Rome since December 9: what strange illness could last such a long time? [P.L. had pleaded some “psychological” illness.] There was talk of subjecting me to a medical examination by three physicians, demanding the names of the clinics visited, and so forth. I consulted His Eminence and Msgr. R.; being expelled ... suited no one, neither my family nor the Cardinal himself. So the solution was to take up my new post, assuring them that I had fully recovered: thus the investigations stopped; I was no longer prosecuted, my case was shelved. No doubt, curiosity and suspicion haven’t been allayed, but my life has gone back to routine, and after some time everyone will forget. I will see the Pope next month, and I may accompany him in his journey to Colombia at the end of August — I will keep you informed. There is still the difficulty of his health which may prevent the journey.

All that I have just told you is quite ‘external’ to myself, and I hardly participate in it; I’d rather write about my consciousness: it hasn’t changed — it has remained fastened to Mother’s influence. I feel her protection; everything is easy, for she is with me; she gives me the suitable answer. Like a mantra, I repeat, “Oh, Mother, with your help is anything impossible?” More than that, the joy she has put in my heart remains unshakable. My thought flies away towards her, full of gratitude. Msgr. R. told His Eminence I had been at the Ashram: the Cardinal is delighted. R. has finished reading your book: in his mass he has preached Aurobindo’s ideas. He told me he has come into contact with Mother: he is going to write to her, and later will go and see her. He has accepted Aurobindo’s message as a solution for the world.”

It’s absolutely true that I am with him. Absolutely true. And you remember, I told you that experience, that very strong thing I had felt: like a great thing beginning, a Beginning.... It seems to be true. It’s going to be a big step for the world — for the entire world.

July 17, 1968

Mother is running a temperature, breathing with difficulty and coughing. She hasn’t eaten anything. She receives Satprem lying on her couch.

It’s the same thing going on.... Do you have news?

There’s a letter from Msgr. R. to you. It was sent through J. Here’s what he writes J.: “Let me first thank you — once again — for Satprem’s book on Sri Aurobindo. I have finished reading it. This book has and will have a considerable influence on my life. Secondly, I thank you for the help you gave my dear P.L. He has come back transformed, purified, illuminated. Lastly, may I ask you to hand over to Mother the enclosed letter....”

What does it say?

“Mother, it is without the least reservation that I give you this name of Mother, to you who have given life back to my favorite son.... His stay at the Ashram has marked an essential stage. There has been in his inmost being a radical upheaval.... May I add that I myself feel your powerful and benevolent protection? I have the impression of being understood by you, and I feel I am the inheritor — along with your numerous sons, daughters and disciples — of the spiritual treasures accumulated each day by your fidelity to the mission entrusted to you. With my deep and intense gratitude, may you accept, Mother, the token of my respectful and filial piety.”

And P.L., what does he say?

He answers my last letter, in which I had conveyed your message:

“I have tears in my eyes: a commotion of immense joy has shot through my whole being when I read your letter, and Mother’s words which you repeat for me.... I cannot find words to describe my psychological state — I let you guess it. I feel so small, so insignificant before the horizons you make me glimpse. All this incites me to serious work, to the ‘abdication of the little personality’ so as to be worthy of HER. These feelings in my soul are very different from all my previous religious experiences....

(Mother nods her head in approval)

“... I feel all luminous, the Divine Grace is so powerful that at times I think my body is incapable of holding it; Mother’s Presence is so real; the bliss is so serene, so tranquil.... The little ADVENTURE begun at the Samadhi becomes so worthy of being lived, the CONSCIOUSNESS has widened so much.... Darkness, fear, scruples, mortifications are so far away! A few weeks ago, I had a very painful dream: my body was being torn apart, the pain was excruciating; my feet, my hands, my head were being pulled apart. Today, when I read your letter, I understood the meaning: I had to grow.

“Just two words to inform you about my situation. As I told you, I found two currents in the Vatican, the first one quite raging against me; we thought that my assuming a new post would calm them down, but a few days later, they managed to demand a Collegiate examination (by a neurologist, who, I believe, had been ordered to declare me ‘ill,’ an endocrinologist, an expert in general medicine, and the Pope’s physician) hence the cry of the child running to his mother: my telegram asking for Mother’s protection. On Sunday the 7th, I had a dream: Mother came into a sort of huge warehouse, where I was lying on the ground, and told me, ‘Quick, get away and leave me your place.’ I flew away (without my body, which was still on the ground): it was my soul that went away, and, from on high, very high up, I saw Mother taking possession of my body, entering it, and staying put. Suddenly an army of doctors in white robes makes a beeline for my body (in which Mother is still hidden); no sooner have they surrounded and begun examining it than a terrible explosion sends them flying into the air....

(Mother laughs)

“... I woke up at the blast.... You must have received my telegram: ‘Perfect diagnosis.’ Thus the group that was trying to eliminate me from the Vatican is every day losing its strength and weapons, its intrigues neutralized. The other group, which is favorable to me, on the contrary sees my transformation with pleasure, and I am cautiously beginning to give it Aurobindo’s message. I told you that Msgr. R. is enthusiastic. Now, knowing that Mother replied, ‘Oh, yes! It’s good that way, he must stay and do his work. He must stay.... It’s absolutely true that I am with him,’ I am wholly at peace, full of desire to be ‘the instrument of this great divine work.’”

It’s good. He is fine, this man.

October 5, 1968

Mother is unwell again. Satprem could not see her for a week.

The doctor can’t make any sense of it. Medically, everything is supposed to work very well, then in a few minutes everything gets disorganized…. I am familiar with this sort of magic.

Satprem: Vishwajit has had another vision. He went to the Vatican.

Sidebar: on June 24, 1961, the Mother introduced Vishwajit with the following words: “There is a boy here, V., who is especially interested in what happens at the moment of death (this seems to be one reason why he has reincarnated). He’s a conscious boy, a remarkable clairvoyant, and he has a power. And we have had (how to put it?) some quite interesting correlations of experiences concerning people who pass away here. Extremely interesting and extraordinarily precise: he sends word to me, I reply, and at night when the disincarnated person comes he says, ‘Mother has done this and says to do that,’ and the person does it. And we don’t need to speak — such precision! He might do this work in sleep, or sometimes in meditation, or in a kind of trance he enters into — it depends on the case.”

To the Vatican! ... In his sleep?

He wasn’t asleep…. It was a vision at 5:30 in the morning. He found himself in an immense hall with red carpets. There were all kinds of people there, each moving about according to his respective order. Then, in a corner, seated in a big armchair, there was a man wearing a red hat, a sort of miter, and in concentration. He was concentrated, and was repeating something with a certain gesture of the hand, as if turning something in a circle. V. instantly knew it was him [the one who did the magic]. A man with intense blue eyes, long eyelashes, not strong physically but with a very powerful appearance, a thin, pointed nose, a sparse beard like that of someone who doesn’t shave properly or hasn’t shaved for two or three days, about fifty-five years old. A man who gave the impression of a great egoistic ambition, says V. And he was intently watching P.L., particularly your symbol which P.L. wears around his neck. And he was repeating something while turning his wrist.

Oh, that’s it! That’s why. P.L. went back there, and it’s since then that the attacks have come back.

Yes, P.L. is the link.

October 9, 1968

Satprem: Would you be interested in another vision of V.’s?

He saw something again?! ... But is he aware of this affair?

Not at all! It so happens that a few months ago (he didn’t understand why), he chanced to see the Pope twice. He didn’t at all know why. The first time, he found himself there, in front of a throne, in front of this man [the Pope], who at first fixed his gaze on him and tried to hypnotize him. As he began to hypnotize him, V. started repeating your name within himself. Then the Pope stopped that gaze, gave him a smile and asked him, “Where do you come from?” V. replied, “I come from Sri Aurobindo’s Ashram.” Then the Pope answered, “Oh, I know the Mother very well!” V. didn’t understand the reason for it, what it meant. Then, a second time, he went there once more, saw the Pope again, who received him kindly and told him, “Oh, I would very much like to return to India.” V. said to him, “If you come to India again, you must come and see Mother.” He answered, “Certainly, if I go back to India, I’ll go and see Mother.”

November 2, 1968

Satprem: I got a letter from P.L. I’d written to him and told him V.’s vision, with the description of the person doing magic at the Vatican, and I’d asked him, “Look silently and see if it corresponds to someone.” He writes, “Yes! I know who it is.”

Oh, he said yes.

Yes, he says, “I know who it is and I’ll send you his photo.” I am waiting for the photo. Here’s what he writes: “V.’s vision has come to show me the accuracy of the person’s description: it is Msgr. Z, archbishop in the Holy See’s State Secretariat, an intimate friend of the Holy Father’s and his private collaborator....

Oh, but he is a dangerous man.

And P.L. says: “That vision comes to me the very day when I am told that the Holy Father has given instructions to his closest collaborators for the formation of a program of action to shake the lethargy of millions of Catholics asleep in the routine of unconscious religious practice. Here are the most important names in the committee: X, Italy’s cardinal; Y, France’s cardinal; Z, the Pope’s factotum; then Msgr. Z...

That same man.

... and me!... The meetings will take place ‘sub secreto specialissimo,’ a formula equivalent to ‘top secret.’”

Oh, he’ll be in it! Interesting.

It’s quite extraordinary. And this Msgr. Z will also be in it. P.L.’s letter goes on: “You may remember that I had been told about a promotion at the Vatican; that promotion, announced while I was in Pondicherry, gave rise to the basest intrigues, so that the nomination was stopped. And paradoxically, I have been given the [corresponding] duties without the title.... They have decided to test me, and to do so for a period of at least four years.... The struggle for power in this milieu is frightening. But I see all that from such a distance! I have the sensation that it’s all about someone else, not me, and that embarrasses those around me, for I do not react to injustice. (And what injustice! — If they knew how indifferent I am to this little world.) That’s the sad panorama. You will now realize why the Samadhi’s peace and sweetness are so dear to me and intimate to my soul. At times I feel like a feather blown here or there by the wind, and my whole effort is anchored in the light Sweet Mother has put into my psyche. Right from the first moment of the day my tenderness rises towards her, and then I see that what I do is not important, but the MANNER is....”

December 4, 1968

P.L. has sent photos of the man supposed to be doing magic.

Satprem: V. saw the photo of the Vatican man, and he confirmed, saying “This is the man.”

(Mother looks at the photo) Oddly, he’s an intelligent man. But these people are hypocrites; they think in one way and act according to another principle….

To come back to this man from the Vatican, he belongs to the type of people who have principles of action and can kill their dearest friend (or have him killed) like that, out of conviction. That’s clear.

December 25, 1968

Satprem: Finally there’s a letter from P.L. “My stay in Spain was prolonged more than I had thought.... I went to spend a weekend by the sea, where I have a very pretty tiny apartment.... There I meditate and go through all the teachings of Mother again by immersing myself in The Life Divine and the Questions and Answers. I lighted an incense stick. Suddenly my whole body broke into a profuse sweat, and an atrocious struggle began. If I could use religious terms from before my Ashram experiences, I would say that all of St. Anthony’s temptations fell on me to destroy and shatter me spiritually. First, a disarray, a very deep distress of helplessness: What use is my life? What am I doing? Why do I live? My efforts are useless.... Then there was the attraction of woman, which came to ridicule my continence.... Everything was called into question: whys and more whys made my head burst. After that came the invasion of power: Why did you renounce the hope of becoming a bishop? Glory would have come to you.... Then the desire for money.... Everything in a macabre and at the same time attractive carrousel. Finally, total solitude ... abandoned by all, all having gone away: my friends, my connections in the Vatican, my family, all of you. How much time went by? I do not know. Nevertheless, I think I heard a very small voice ... (but I was so weak that I cannot say if it was true) telling me, ‘Do not weep, I am with you. If I am with you, others are superfluous, and if you are without me, others won’t be able to help you....’ I remained in a void ... the whole night passed. In the morning, the sunshine, everything was so beautiful! When I returned to the Rome house, I was told I was transformed!”

I did say that to him [“I am with you”].

Occultly, those people are very skilled. For at least two days in a row, I felt he was in a great difficulty…. I didn’t say it with those words [“I am with you”] because I never say “I am,” but the consciousness was like this: “The Lord is with you.” Only, I can’t say it with words, because for them, as soon as you speak about “God,” their whole religion comes back. It was the FACT of consciousness that I put on him. But you can tell him that it’s exactly what I wanted to say to him. It took that expression in him because, in him, I represent ... the other side of life. It’s good, it’s exactly what I wanted to make him feel.

March 26, 1969

Satprem: You know that the Pope has set up a “Reform Committee” for the Church, and PL. is on it. For a few months he was asked to go and carry out “opinion polls” here and there (in Portugal, Spain, etc.), to study possible reforms. Following those opinion polls, the Committee met in Rome with the Monsignors and Cardinals. And there, PL. came flat out with it all!

Bah! … (Mother laughs)

Because some five or six months ago, I wrote to him a few reflections of yours about Christianity. I wrote him that, developing it (it really came to me). And then he came out with it all!

What! Bah-bah!

Sidebar: Extracts from Satprem’s letter of November 26, 1968:

“Thank you for the photos and the interesting article on the crisis of the Church. In this connection, Mother told me that the only thing that could open up Christianity (because it is closed in on itself, turned towards the past, and therefore immutable, unprogressive, that is the germ of its death and its decomposition), the only thing would be for it to admit a Force from the Future. Sri Aurobindo spoke of the supramental, but the form or the terms matter little; if only Christianity could admit, for instance, the reincarnation of Christ, or a second, future Christ, it would be saved — its attitude would be open instead of being closed. That’s the crux of the whole matter, and beating about the bush, carrying out all kinds of reform and modernization is nothing, it only touches appearances, leaving this center untouched. But of course, it instantly means heresy! Yet this is the only salvation for the Church, the only thing that really needs rethinking. All the rest is chatter and papering over the old cracks.

“Your photo of Msgr. Z fitted precisely with the vision! Now you have nothing to fear anymore. Simply keep me informed if you notice outer changes in this person....

“The disciple who had the vision wanted me to ask you if you happen to carry Mother’s symbol or something of her around your neck? Because he saw you with this symbol around your neck …. He told me that the basilica where the photo of this Msgr. Z was taken had very much the vibration of a haunted place! Poor Church …. You are indeed courageous, dear P.L., and you are silently doing a great and good work for the world.”

Satprem: Here’s his letter:

“I can finally write to you with the calm and tenderness that spring from my soul, which is truly reaching out towards Sweet Mother and tuned to her. She gave me a spiritual joy that has not left me since I have known her.

“These last few days, Mother’s presence has revealed itself in my being and activities, stronger and more VISIBLE. In the polls commission, of which you know I am a member at the Pope’s pleasure, I felt the other day an irrepressible force in my breast: I had to speak out. I knew that my words would cause a scandal in the meeting. The little voice was telling me, ‘Now is the time, cry out the message Mother has given you; do not fear, she is with you.’ And I spoke, to the great consternation of those present. ‘Listen to me, all of you. The only thing that could open up Christianity (because it’s closed in on itself, turned towards the past, and therefore immutable, unprogressive: there is the seed of its own death and decomposition), the only thing would be for it to admit a force from the FUTURE ….’

“Satprem, do you remember these words? You conveyed them from Mother to me on 26 November ‘68, the day I sent you that article on the crisis of Christianity. I went on: ‘There are new forces and new facts. Someone has said it’ (I did not name Sri Aurobindo) ‘and has spoken of the SUPRAMENTAL, but the word, the form or terms matter little.’ (There I quoted you again.) ‘If only Christianity could admit, for instance, Christ’s reincarnation, or a second, FUTURE Christ, it would be saved, its attitude would be open instead of being closed. That is the crux of the whole matter, and beating about the bush, carrying out all kinds of reform and modernization is nothing, it only touches appearances, and unless we touch this center … But of course, it instantly means heresy! Yet there is the only salvation for the Church, the only thing that really needs rethinking. All the rest is chatter …. We have shut everything up: we are the “depositaries of the faith” — Depositum Fidei! And have nothing to add. Does it mean that Christ died without leaving any possibility to add to his message? But we aren’t the same men as those in Palestine. We have limited the Divine’s powers. We have forbidden Christ any expansion. We have locked him up and thrown the key into the sea….

“The silence was dense, the stupefaction huge. And I went on again: ‘But we believe we are the interpreters, and except us none has the right to speak. Nevertheless, we are faced with the current phenomenon of anti-establishment protest. The youth is running away from us, our formulas are old, ineffective, we preach without conviction, we demand absurd things, and to have peace, we stick a label of “sin” on all taboos. I know that my speech will be called subversive. In dictatorial or established regimes, those who move forward are suspicious. For twenty centuries we have used the weapon of heresy, and we know the atrocities that were committed in the name of Christ: that was our defense — it was his wisdom to keep power. But if Christ suddenly appeared here, in front of us, do you think he would recognize himself in us? Is the Christ we preach the Christ of the BEATITUDES? Our preoccupation is to prohibit opening. And we make fools of ourselves with the pill. But are we also preoccupied with the TRUTH? … Yet we should read our holy books again, but read them without passion, without egoistic interest; almost two thousand years ago, St. Paul said, “Multifariam, multisque modis olim Deus loquens in prophetis, novissime diebus istis locutus est nobis in Filio” (several times and in several ways God has spoken through the prophets, but now in these last days he has spoken to us through his Son Jesus Christ …). Thus God has spoken “in several ways.” I know that a new light has just appeared, a new Consciousness — let us go in search of it. But we shall have to step down from our throne, from our convenience; perhaps to leave the place to others and do away with the Hierarchy: no more Pope or Cardinals or Bishops, but all of us seekers of the truth, of the consciousness, the power, the supranatural, the suprahuman....

“Satprem, I left the room and went away … for a walk in the countryside …. What is going to happen to me? Will they put me on trial? Will they declare me insane, heretic? I am waiting. I am eager to go and see Mother. I am preparing my travel for Easter …. To this day, no reaction. Has the Pope been informed? I do not know. I have continued with the inquiry entrusted to me. I feel very calm, very strong. I have not spoken about all that to any of those close to me (not even to Msgr. R.). The malefic character seen in dream (Msgr. Z) was present, but he did not react either….

“I came back to Rome on the 12th; as I have told you, no reaction, no admonition. I am simply going on with my work. Lacking time, I did not write earlier, and I wanted to see if my situation would change. Nothing. We are meeting again on March 24. So I am here, waiting, very much tuned to Mother. (Rome, March 18, 1969)

March 29, 1969

Have you received any news of P.L.?

Satprem: Yes. You know that he was supposed to arrive today. Then he sends this wire: “Impossible to leave. Letter follows. Situation difficult.” … They can put him on trial for heresy.

Was it you who told me that the Pope had invited a sadhu from India?

Yes.

But the Pope too is on trial for heresy! Since he told the sadhu that now the true spirituality is found in India — so he too is a heretic!... What I mean is that the Pope and P.L. are guilty of the same heresy! So if they put P.L. on trial, it’s like putting the Pope on trial — will they dare to do it?

But no one knows that the Pope and PL. have some relationship. P.L. has never been able to meet the Pope personally.

He has never been able…

No, never, he has always been prevented. It’s a … rigorous mafia.

April 5, 1969

Satprem reads a Letter from P.L. dated March 29, 1969:

“When I canceled my ticket for Pondicherry, I felt a spell of giddiness as when one receives a sharp blow to the head and one’s balance seems lost…. I was summoned to the Vatican and told to remain at the entire disposal of the Holy Father, who entrusts me with a grave and difficult question concerning the president of the Italian Episcopal Conference: I am asked to solve that problem. The Pope is counting on my skill, and so on. I was questioned about the reasons for my remarks of February 24, for there had just been a bombshell: two young Latin American bishops (from Peru and Chile) had left the Church — the first such cases in history, of course after the well-known and unique case of Talleyrand (for other reasons). They were my fellow students at the Rome University. They are leaving the Church because of a religious crisis…. Yet they had everything the Church could give: honors, money; one was made a bishop at the age of thirty-three, the other two years ago…. My remarks of February 24 were therefore prophetic….

But this is interesting, VERY interesting!

“ … I wanted to leave. But I concentrated very strongly on Mother, and I felt her voice telling me, ‘Stay on …’

Yes.

“ ‘You will come later. Continue to be my WORD where you are …’

(Mother nods approvingly)

“ ‘I am with you.’ So I canceled my ticket.”

It’s good. Oh, you know, I concentrated a lot, but a lot, and I found the Pope extraordinarily receptive — only, imprisoned. That’s it, you understand, a rather remarkable receptivity, but … (gesture under a bell-jar) imprisoned in his action. But where he can probably act, he has placed his confidence in P.L. Which means they want to use what he knows rather than try to stifle him. It’s adroit. And it can be useful.

You can tell him that it’s true I am with him, very strongly and very consciously. But that it should have had that effect [the “blow to the head”] is troublesome….

(Satprem suddenly notices that a corner of Mother’s left eye is slightly bloodshot.)

Mother, Sujata has noticed that whenever I get a letter from P.L., I always have a headache afterwards.

Oh! … But this too (Mother points to her eye), I am not sure it’s not a result of.… They are highly skilled occultists.

I’ll tell you something: while you were reading the letter, Sri Aurobindo was there, and he told me, “Be careful.” I am always careful, but he probably saw that they’re very skilled. The next time you get a letter (either write to him or get a letter from him), first, invoke Sri Aurobindo and ask him for his protection BEFORE starting.

July 5, 1969

There’s some news of P.L. He is a bit discouraged. You know that he had been excluded from the Pope’s retinue just as the Pope was to make a speech in Geneva on “Christian unity” with the Protestants. So P.L. writes, “I started writing to you several times, but could not manage to end my letters. After the huge effort made to infuse the sentiments of openness that Mother had inspired me with, just as the Pope accepted to refrain from proclaiming himself as the ‘Sole’ possessor of the Truth and to put himself at the same level as the other creeds, Reaction had the upper hand and everything has remained as before. At the last minute, the paragraphs in the speech were changed.”

August 2, 1969

Satprem: I’ve received a line from P.L. He just writes this: “The distress of these last few weeks is slowly turning into strength and calm …. I confess that I suffered a good deal from my failure regarding the Vatican, but after what you conveyed to me from Mother, everything is growing clearer.” Yes, I had told him that it wasn’t at all a question of outer triumph or failure, that the simple fact of his PRESENCE there acted as a kind of “relay” enabling the Light to enter there — the very fact of his being there. That’s what I had told him.

As for me, I’ll add something. You understand, they made an attempt to unify all of Christendom, and the Pope went to Geneva to unite with the Protestants — which wouldn’t have been so good. That’s not the thing needed, because it would have strengthened Christianity — division takes away some of its power. It’s the unification of ALL religions that’s needed, not the unification of Christianity — they haven’t reached that point. So after looking a good deal, I saw it was, on the contrary, a divine grace that it didn’t work out. If you have the opportunity, you can tell him that.

August 20, 1969

(P.L. has arrived in Pondicherry)

Satprem: I saw PL. There are two things, first a personal one, then a more general one. He said the last time he saw you, after leaving you he went to the Samadhi, and there he suddenly had an extremely sharp pain in the lower abdomen. But he said it was very strange because it didn’t feel like an ordinary pain: it didn’t stop him from walking about, but it remained centered there — a sharp pain.

As for me, I am afraid those people there may have cast a spell on him.

Yes, but you being here, it shouldn’t have the power to touch him.

Ah, no, it’s not like that! It’s done consciously against … not against him, but against what he receives here. So it changes his personal sensation (they’re very skilled at those things); in his personal sensation, the sense of Ananda (it’s not quite a “joy,” it’s really the Ananda of the presence of the Force) is turned into pain. That they know how to do.

If there were nothing in his mental or vital or physical makeup to respond to those people’s force, he wouldn’t have felt any pain — but there’s necessarily something. And that’s what made him feel it as a pain, whereas it’s not a true pain. Certainly there is still something in him that can get afraid (that I saw), and its enough. It acts as a link.

Is there something else?

Yes, he has had a vision of a much more general order. All of a sudden he had the sensation that the Pope was dead. It was the same atmosphere as at the time of Pius XII’s death and John XXIII’s death…. Then all the cardinals met in a conclave closeted to elect a new Pope as usual. And they couldn’t manage to elect a new Pope…. Then, suddenly, on the Vatican fell a bomb — all the cardinals were crushed, the whole Vatican was crushed by that bomb. And all at once, he saw that bomb turn into a sort of golden sun, or golden ball, and out of all the Vatican’s museums (which had been crushed — those places where there were Michelangelos and all those treasures), there came an army of rats!

(Mother laughs)

Rats and “malformed” beasts, he told me. Out of all those treasures of the Vatican, there only came rats all over the place. And at the same time, there was the sensation of those few hundred millions of faithful who were there, wondering, “What are we to do? What are we going to do?

Interesting.

October 11, 1969

Satprem: There’s some news of P.L. A rather discouraged letter, because he’s the victim of all sorts of harassing machinations at the Vatican.

Oh, yes. You know, between you and me (don’t tell him), after he spoke [at the meeting of the committee to reform the Church, see conversation of March 26, 1969] he was in GREAT danger, and it gave me work for several days — a long time. I worked and worked and worked to make it impossible for them to do … something radically nasty. He had a narrow escape. It was almost miraculous that they didn’t get rid of him — they’re very skilled at that.

Give him this (Mother hands a “blessings packet”) and tell him it’s a symbol of my constant presence.

---

Some glimpses of the Mother:

https://aurocafe.substack.com/p/on-gratitude

https://aurocafe.substack.com/p/101-years-ago

https://aurocafe.substack.com/p/the-lord-of-falsehood-a-brief-history